Wednesday, December 31, 2008

Is It Even Worth It???

An acquaintance of mine took in a 9 year old paint mare. Everything seemed fine at first. then as it has begun to turn out, the mare want EVERYBODY dead.

Now I've worked with horses who've had bad manners, kicked, reared, etc... but this mare will buck you off then turn around and charge you. It doesn't matter if she's bareback, with a saddle, in a hackamore or bridle. She hates your guts... So where do you turn at this point?? I knew a gal who had a similarly aggressive horse and she made it "disappear" to Canada. Now obviously we want to save as many of these poor souls as possible, but when do you just call a spade a spade??? When is it time to call the vet out and have the horse "go away." Is that fair? Are you sure some magical horse trainer can't fix it??? No, sorry. Sometimes there is just NO coming back.

My friend is now very stressed out as she can never re home this mare and the mare is becoming more and more aggressive as the days go on, even to other horses...

Sometimes their personality or bad life experiences they've had are way too much to ever come out of. The best thing to do in that case is to put it down. Even in good faith or if you explain yourself til your blue you can't usually re home them. We are a lawsuit-crazy world and it's just not worth it to travel down that road.

Keep in mind that what I'm talking about is a truly DEADLY horse that is out for BLOOD. There are 2 different types of criminals as there are horses. You have the one that is stealing Snicker bars from 7-11 and the homicidal maniac who will get the death penalty or life in prison. Same thing with horses...

Is it worth it?? To me? No F-ing way...There are 100 good horses who need homes versus the 1 who is a homicidal killer waiting to happen...

22 comments:

2toads2luv said...

I totally agree. A horse that's aggressive and out to hurt someone is obviously seriously dangerous and needs to be sent down the road to never never land.

Euth or KB? Well, I guess that would have to be a personal decision, based on finances, transportation concerns, personal feelings, ect.

Either way, unfortunately, the horse is a danger and needs to be gone.

Trainer X said...

Amen !!!Yup yup, and I'm talking legitimate DANGER. You should be able to tell the diff. between the one who is out for your corpse or the one who is scared or misunderstood...

2toads2luv said...

And Amen to that, too. I had a friend who had a beautiful Trakehner she had to put down for this exact reason. It was sad, he was such a beautiful mover and great jumper, but he would try to stomp the living shit out of anyone but her. He even broke out of his stall to, well, attack, for lack of better word, a gal in the aisleway.

Buh-BYE.

Kirasmommy said...

Sadly enough I know some horses who have ended up in that area. Some can be brought back but even then, most are never 'user friendly' at least not with how the 'average' horse owner is today. I support Euth. for any case like that. Both my geldings (both rescues, both severally abused, the TB lived in a shed for 2 years and ate the walls till he was confiscated)were severe though they never reached the "I want to kill everyone stage" my TB tried to hurt everyone (and I mean everyone, horse, human, and dog) but me and later died of a brain anurysim at age 8. My Morab after 6 months of 'hard and dangerous' work could be handled in controlled situations. My Morab would attack you in the stall and in the field because of his abuse, and he enjoyed double barreling whatever was behind him till it stopped moving. He nearly killed 4horses before he began to respond, 2 were mine (1 was my Hackney Pony who kepting jumping fencing to 'help' me) 1 was my QH who he eventually bonded with, the other 2were put in w/o my knowledge by others. In the end he ended up being ok enough for riding and handling by an experienced rider and handler. When I moved out here I kept him and my mare seperated from everyone else and kept all humans besides me out. Sadly enough before he passed away (twisted gut) I discovered his fear of Coke cans (not pepsi) evidently part of his 'sacking out' process including being hit with coke cans, and his gelding was basically him being knocked over, legs hobbled, and his 'family jewels' removed with one of those clamps you buy in catalog and no drugs. Additionally, he was punched or kicked everytime he showed fear. I don't know enough about TB's history to say what caused reaction. But, I do know that the TB was almost enjoying the hurting of others and the Morab was "in his mind' defending himself before anyone could do him anymore harm. I also find it interesting in retrospect that both had died of physical problems at such young ages as well (8 and 12). In addition to them I have known plenty of other dangerous horses who have done attacking and were left out in fields afterwards to be 'one with nature' I found the some actually had tumors that were affecting them. All in all in today's world there is no room for an animal that wants to do harm to others. And very few people are will to do what I have done. Though I will say the both my geldings were able to live decently enough with others while I took care of them. They were also very sweet with me. But,then there are cases where they are completely beyond all hope (I know those guys too). And taking them to auction does not make it any better. On a similar note for the first time since I moved to WA I will be attending the Enumclaw auction on Sunday. Mainly for research, as I have no plans to get another rescue till my filly is older. But, if anyone wants to meet up...

GoLightly said...

Years ago, an older mare I knew had a filly foal, and it was born crazy whacko. The placenta looked like mare'd also had a twin. Tried to hurt you, from the moment it was born, all the time. They are the "trash" that needs thrown out, the worst kind of horse to work on. Thankfully, they seem pretty rare. A bullet would be kinder than a long truck ride up here, of course. Or maybe they're learning to be carnivores:)
I knew a gorgeous arab colt, born the same way. Kicking the mare, biting, squealing..
You wonder what our breeding them has done to their brains.

Damn it's cold again today..

I wonder just how much nasty shit is revenge for past crimes against them?
When they're born nasty, you're done.
Stir-craziness is another matter, of course.

Happy New Years, y'all!!!

Trainer X said...

I hope you all have a FABULOUS NEW YEAR!!! BTW!!!

Trainer X said...

Good for you KM!!!! That's good that you were able to help those horses while you could...

I got horses to save money! said...

I completely agree that a dangerous horse should be euthanized - it's only fair to the animal and safe for everyone involved with it. That said, I have something that might be worth considering.

I don't know what all you guys have looked into, but my own mare started showing aggressive behavior a couple months ago. It turned out that she had a magnesium imbalance and the same day that we began supplementing additional magnesium to her, she turned around and fast! Have health issues (such as a nutritional imbalance or ovarian tumors) already been investigated? I know some of that can be expensive, but it's just a thought. I just wanted to offer my experience with my mare. Granted, the worst that she got was charging in the round pen (I wouldn't call her intent deadly, though, she seemed to aim more for intimidation than harm).

CutNJump said...

If a horse is a danger to itself, it's handlers or other horses, it needs to be put down. End of story and the sooner the better.

If this mare kills your friend, there's no telling where the horse may end up and how many others will be hurt or killed. Better to do it now than to risk it any further.

I worked with a stallion who needed to be gelded. He was a pain in the ass to handle or be around. I repeatedly told the trainer, farm manager and farm owner they needed to cut his nuts off.

"Oh no. No, no, no. We are running him through our sale as a stallion prospect."

This horse charged the front of the stall and other horses, reared and struck at anyone putting him on or taking him off the walker and was just a prick in general.

Thankfully he didn't bring the price they hoped for and he passed through without selling. Shortly afterwards- he was gelded! Oh Happy Day!!! He was much more well behaved after that and became a pleasure to work with believe it or not.

One of the bidders was a couple who had absolutely no horse experience and no spine. Can anyone just imagine what would have happened had they bought him?

Nohab said...

I have to agree here as well, it's time to put this beast out of its misery. However, I do suggest an autopsy after putting it down to see, if there was a medical reason for this behavior, e.g, a brain tumor or an abnormal high pressure inside the brain cavity. What makes me thinking into that direction is this: ""and the mare is becoming more and more aggressive as the days go on, even to other horses... ""

Long Island Five said...

My heart goes out your your friend and her horse.

My TB was pretty much a rougue until he was diagnosed and treated for EPM -- actually he became even more agressive during the second week of treatment. Note that I got horses to save money's mare had a nutritional imbalance and Kirasmommy's two delinquents did not make it into old age.

Beside the agreement that some horses can't be saved, there seems to be some consensus that at least a full blood panel might be a worthwhile last-ditch attempt to save your friend's horse.

Just a thought.

kestrel said...

A friend of mine bought a just mean to the bone horse, and with the best of intentions tried to rehabilitate him.
He was absolutely beautiful, and had never been abused. If anything, his previous owner spoiled him a bit, but most horses would have been fine. Not this creep!
He kicked my friend's darling gelding and broke his hip. He dumped another woman and broke her arm. He reared on the farrier and crushed his leg. He ran over my friend and actually stepped on her head, stomping her with 3 feet before we could get him off her.
Enough. He couldn't be rehomed, and had been given every chance, so I insisted he be put down. Big meanie that I am.
The horse was out of a famous line of park horses that are bred to be crazy. The show ring creates another monster.....then dumps it because they didn't have the balls to step up and cull him and duped an unsuspecting public into trying to do something with him. Physical problem or mental? Who knows. Did it make any difference to the people who got hurt? No.
It is UNETHICAL in the extreme to try to sell or give away a horse that is that dangerous.
Euth or can? Who cares. I would have cooked and eaten him for lunch myself! (Just kidding. Maybe.)

Hyena Overlord said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Hyena Overlord said...

I would't keep a psychopathic or sociopathic killer in my house. why would I tolerate one with four legs? If we can't find a way for them to enjoy their life as a horse then put them out of their misery.

Anastasia said...

The very first thing I would do is get a vet to check her for hormonal problems. I've heard of ovarian cysts/tumors causing some very weird and aggressive behavior. I think that if she checked OK there I would euth. Not worth it to have an unsafe horse around, they are way too big.

Lulu said...

So, I rode a mare just like this many moons ago. I told the gal that paid me to break her to do her daughter's health a favor, and sell the horse by the pound. She was honestly out for blood, and was not ever going to change. The sad part is that mare was NOT abused...she had been loved her entire life by the same family that wanted to ride her.

Mikolaj said...

I think horses can actually give us good insight into the eternal question about people - are serial killers born or made? I think horses (or animals in general) prove that some are just BORN meaner then a hungry rattler. I've known a few horses who had absolutely no record of abuse or maltreatment and yet right as foals were the bullies of the pasture, showing a mean streak towards horses and humans alike. I find quite typically in any horse that has no history of abuse, they're prone to be mean to EVERYTHING not just humans.

Frankly, there are to many good horses wanting for homes to waste your time with one out for blood. Short of one hell of a good ass kicking (and I'm talking about one that leaves welts), theres just no way to reason with a bad tempered animal. At best, the ass kicking will leave you with a sullen and nasty animal who may not try to kill you anymore, but you'll always have to watch like a hawk. Why bother?

Which brings forth an EXCELLENT point - temperment IS hereditary. I don't care if you got the nicest, best conformed, most winningest stallion around, if he pins his ears everytime someone gets within 30 yards of his stall, he ain't comin near my mare and should NOT be bred. Temperment is just as important as conformation. My gramps bred Arabs for over 30 years and there wasn't a single foal come out of his stallion that a child couldn't ride. I only remember one bad tempered Arab on that whole property - and it was when he outcrossed to his brothers wicked tempered stud. Dusty turned out into one hell of an amazing jumper (4'0" jumper courses and winning), but his whole life he never did stop trying to buck every person who dared ride him. He got lucky - he had a bad attitude but he wasn't actually MEAN. But again, proof that temperment breeds on as much as conformation.

/ end rant

kestrel said...

Mikolag, you go girl! Same rant! I raise Arabs that I use for handicapped rider lesson horses. Funny, I used to hate Arabs because I'd only been around the inbred poodle hysterical killers. Then I found an incredible bloodline of kind sane loving horses that are sound and correct.
I think a lot of the psychos have health issues that go unseen, and in the show ring they get used up and thrown away so fast the temperament faults aren't obvious.

The flip side of the psycho horse debate is that, just as in some people, I have seen horses recover from the absolute worst abuse and still have a sweet nature.

Mikolaj said...

Kestrel - I agree completely. That and completely inept handlers/trainers. I swear Arabian people are crazier then their damn horses. I went to Canadian Nationals ONCE and never again - that sort of treatment is flat out abuse as far as I'm concerned. Those horses SHAKE in the showring! Trotting out, they flip their noses up in fear constantly. They exemplify every typical stereotype you've ever heard about Arabs! And yet in their stalls, they were quiet, sweet and sane. It made me SO angry - I love Arabians but I will NEVER show Arabs because of that disgusting display. I'll stick to my endurance thanks, where the treatment of the horse ALWAYS comes first!

Haha anyway, I'm ranting again. That's wonderful that you use them for handicap children! I've been around them my whole life - I have pictures of myself at 2 years old with my mother on my gramps stallion, and another of me at SEVEN years old after I came galloping in, bareback and in only a halter and leadrope on one of the purebred registered broodmares! (Haha, nobody knew I'd been sneaking out to ride them in the back!!!) It's just been love ever since - the only crazy Arabs I've worked with thus far were the two severe abuse cases I took on and by crazy I mean complete and total fear.

And yes, I agree again! It is truly rare you'll find a "bad" tempered horse due to abuse - I find the vast majority of abuse cases result in scared and mistrusting horses who only want a patient hand. Of course you unfortunately get the horses who've been pushed SO far over the edge, they snap and become dangers to everyone, but I still don't associate that behavior with "bad" temper. It's just a shame it's hard for people to recognize the difference between mean and scared.

Trainer X said...

I loathe breed stereotypes... the animal is only as crazy as WE make it... *within reason of course*

Serena said...

This draft horse rescue in Ontario says it best on their "angels" page--they have euthed a couple of horses due to behavioral issues:
http://www.drafthorserescue.com/angels.html

Trainer X said...

See thank you!! That is exactly right and good for them for doing the hard, but right thing!!!!!